Author Topic: Elemental Reference Guide  (Read 11419 times)

Deathlike2

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Elemental Reference Guide
« on: March 13, 2008, 10:02:48 PM »
For the sake of keeping it all in one place and not having to dig up older threads.. this should suffice:

Note: This should be about final...

Physical Attacks:

The best examples of an elemental physical attack are Yang's Claws.

Note: Elemental physical weakness for Fire+Ice equipment combinations have also been "corrected" in FF4A as well to not be weak vs Fire+Ice physical attacks. This is an equipment specific attribute, not an monster attribute.

If the target is weak any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 2. It is multiplied by 4 instead if the target (a monsters only attribute) has the Weak+ bit set.

The above rule has total precedence over all physical elemental attacks for the SNES version. Weakness has precedence over absorb/resistance, but not Immunity in the GBA version.

For example if Yang has an IceClaw and FireClaw and attacks a FlameDog, the fact that it is weak vs ice has precedence over the fact it absorbs Fire.

If the target is immune to any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 0.

This is most notable with Cecil's Darkness elemental sword vs Zombie monsters (and others).

Note: In the SNES version of the game if you manage to make a critical hit or deal "weird" damage to zombies with Cecil's Darkness elemental swords, the base attack power of the attack is 25.

Immunity has precedence over absorb and resistance, but not weakness in the SNES version. Immunity has total precedence over all physical elemental attacks for the GBA version.

If the target is resistant or absorbs any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 1/2.

For example is Yang has a FireClaw and attacks a FlameDog, the base attack power of Yang is multiplied by 1/2 and the FlameDog takes less damage as a result.

Here's a quick reference order of which has priority:
FF4A (GBA)
Immunity > Weakness > Absorb/Resistance
FF2/4 (SNES)
Weakness > Immunity > Absorb/Resistance

Magical Attacks:

Note: In the SNES version of the game, elemental immunity has precedence over elemental absorb. In the GBA version of the game, elemental absorb has precedence over elemental immunity. Absorb/Immunity has precedence over every magic attack.

The best example for this is how the Adamant Armor+Cursed Ring react when both are equipped at the same time  in both versions of the game.

Note: An interruptable attack is an attack sequence that doesn't end until the damage or status effects are displayed (which implies the sequence has completed).

Examples of uninterruptable attack sequences include FF4A's ZeromusEG's multi-elemental attack, the ToadLady's Toad attack, and the Dark Elf's multi-elemental attack.

If the target is able to absorb any elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, all the damage is inverted after being applied against magic defense. If a physical attack is in this sequence, the attack is converted as "healing". This rule has precedence over an entire attack sequence.

If the target is immune to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, the base spell power of the attack is multiplied by 0, therefore all damage taken by the target is effectively equal to 1.

If the target is ONLY resistant to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, the spell power of the attack is multiplied by 1/2. If this is included in an uninterruptable attack sequence, damage intake will be 1/2 for all the other attacks.

In FF4A, three of the summons in Rydia's Trial are resistant to their notable elementals. They will take far less damage by their favorable elementals.

If the target is ONLY weak to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in the solo or uninterruptable attack, the spell power of the attack is multiplied by 2. If the target has the "Weak+" attribute (only affects attacks on monsters), the spell power of the magic attack is multiplied by 4 instead. If this is included in an uniterruptable attack sequence, damage intake increase will match whether or not the target has the Weak+ attribute.

Here's a quick reference order of which has priority:
FF4A (GBA)
Absorb > Immunity > Resistance > Weakness
FF2/4 (SNES)
Immunity > Absorb > Resistance > Weakness

Notes:
Darkness Elemental - There is no Darkness magic (the Dave Wave attack is non-elemental for those that are wondering), but it is still absorbable by equipment. You generally notice this in the form of elemental immunity through Zombies and Cecil's Darkness elemental swords.

Aerial Elemental - There is no enemy that has immunity to (or absorb) this elemental, but it still works properly. Also, FF4A's description of this elemental being "resistant" for the Blue Dragon doesn't tell the complete story. This is because there is no Aerial elemental spell. However, a spell given the Aerial Elemental will behave just like Fire/Ice/Lightning elementals does for absorb, immunity, and resistance. Weakness vs Aerial though means immunity to Quake type spells... the equivalent of having the target have Float status.

Drain Elemental - This is a more peculiar elemental. Resistance (1/2 attack power) is applied when the Drain/Absorb bit on the target is enabled (it serves a dual purpose function). If a different offensive spell is given this elemental, the target is directly healed by it (which shouldn't be too much of a surprise) if it has the Drain/Absorb bit is set.

Spells given the Drain elemental don't heal undead targets or hurt you.

Drain+Osmose has no effect, but that's because they are hardcoded, even if you change their elemental properties.

The Drain elemental given to weapons are very consistant at least. Immune+Absorb/Drain bit will make Drain weaponry/attacks deal 1 damage. Drain weakness will allow 2x damage dealt to Drain weaponry. Drain healing is inverted vs Undead...

Weak+/Immune "Elemental" - Believe it or not, this also serves a dual purpose.

Defensively:

Monsters that have this as a weakness increases the power of the spell/weapon by 4x. Monsters that have this as an immunity make other physical and magical attacks reduces the power of the spell/weapon to 0. Armor doesn't have it as a "weakness", which is good.

Offensively:

Weapons that have this as an attribute have their attack power increase by 4x. This is because the Weak+ bit is ALSO the Immune "elemental weakness bit". So let's say we have a weapon that has the Immune bit set. We know that Zombies have the Immune bit. If this "Immune elemental" weapon were to attack the Zombie, the attacker will have his attack power increase by 4x. This has no effect if the monster has this attribute since there is no "Immune elemental weakness" for armor.

FF4A lists doesn't quite list "immunity", but only that a target is resistant (and technically the target is very resistant in this case).

Important note: Elemental multipliers do not stack. If one were to expose the Ice+Aerial weakness of the Arachne monster with the Blizzard Spear or Ice Arrows (which contains both elementals), the character will have his attack power increase only by 4 because of the Weak+ bit. You would be doing the same damage if Fire arrows or the Icebrand is used instead.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 09:25:49 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 11:43:59 PM »
Finalized after testing.. but I kinda wodner about how FF4A deals with immunity vs absorb for physical attacks..
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Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 12:37:01 AM »
Posted some new and perhaps interesting findings.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 02:31:52 AM »
In FF4A, Ice and Fire elemental equipment don't exhibit Fire/Ice weakness to weapons...

Also, the Immune status takes precedence over resistance for equipment (not sure about monsters though).
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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 10:26:34 AM »
This is interesting information.

I always kind of wondered about the Darkness element and what exactly it was and could be used for.

The Holy/Light element is used all over the place in terms of enemies weak to it and weapons and spells that have it as an attribute.

But it seems that darkness is used ONLY for Cecil as a Dark Knight and only on his dark swords. It's almost like it's an underused thing.

Since there aren't any monsters that appear to be weak vs. darkness (I don't know that for certain I don't have hard data in front of me)  it wouldn't help a weapon or spell anyway, it seems to only really matter when Cecil fights monsters strong against darkness.

In an advanced game hack it seems like it might be kind of cool to make enemies weak vs. darkness so that darkness weapons or magic would make sense.

Another thing I noticed in another thread was that someone mentioned that getting hit with the darkness element is what triggers Zeromus' transformation to his final form. Is this true?

I might test this by going into the final battle with someone wielding a dark sword, that'd be interesting if Zeromus transformed because of that.

This might be a consideration if one was going to say make darkness elemental magic or perhaps add the attribute to weapons later in the game (for example I'm thinking of making a character a dark knight throughout the game and he would thus have darkness elemental weapons). You might accidentally trigger zeromus' transformation without using the Crystal...well if that really matters to anyone...

Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 10:38:31 AM »
This is interesting information.

I always kind of wondered about the Darkness element and what exactly it was and could be used for.

The Holy/Light element is used all over the place in terms of enemies weak to it and weapons and spells that have it as an attribute.

But it seems that darkness is used ONLY for Cecil as a Dark Knight and only on his dark swords. It's almost like it's an underused thing.

Yes, it is relatively underused.. to the point where I originally thought there were Darkness magic attacks.. but there are NONE.

Quote
Since there aren't any monsters that appear to be weak vs. darkness (I don't know that for certain I don't have hard data in front of me)  it wouldn't help a weapon or spell anyway, it seems to only really matter when Cecil fights monsters strong against darkness.

They already exist, but are few in number. Two bosses IIRC are affected by this... including Octomammoth (I mean, Tellah wanted someone wielding the Dark Sword to help him after all) and the MomBomb.

There is an actual message for it for Peep/Scan.. but is never seen normally. I added the attribute to the Tricker monster for reference.



There is no message when a target is weak vs Drain elemental though...

Quote
In an advanced game hack it seems like it might be kind of cool to make enemies weak vs. darkness so that darkness weapons or magic would make sense.

Another thing I noticed in another thread was that someone mentioned that getting hit with the darkness element is what triggers Zeromus' transformation to his final form. Is this true?

Yes.

Quote
I might test this by going into the final battle with someone wielding a dark sword, that'd be interesting if Zeromus transformed because of that.

It won't work, because Zeromus is immune to attacks. His defense is scripted at 255 at the start of the battle, implying immunity to all physical attacks. 254 is used to imply "normal" defense. A target starting with 254 defense can be boosted to 255 with Protect, but it won't grant physical immunity (see Mind monster). The other issue is that the script reacting to elementals only apply to magic attacks. Items are considered magic, and therefore the Crystal succeeds at hitting said target... (although, I suspect that behavior is hardcoded to the item).

Quote
This might be a consideration if one was going to say make darkness elemental magic or perhaps add the attribute to weapons later in the game (for example I'm thinking of making a character a dark knight throughout the game and he would thus have darkness elemental weapons). You might accidentally trigger zeromus' transformation without using the Crystal...well if that really matters to anyone...

It doesn't work.. as I said.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 11:37:01 AM »
New info posted on the immunity bit... which is also the "immunity elemental".
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Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 01:51:02 AM »
New info will be posted in this thread: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=259.0
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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 05:02:54 AM »
Quote
Drain weakness will allow 2x damage dealt to Drain weaponry.

Can you verify that the Drain/Absorb flag works for enemy weaknesses? I did a few different tests and can't replicate your finding. There's no difference in damage when I change the flags (testing in FF2us). Anyone else test this?

Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 11:27:37 AM »
Quote
Drain weakness will allow 2x damage dealt to Drain weaponry.

Can you verify that the Drain/Absorb flag works for enemy weaknesses? I did a few different tests and can't replicate your finding. There's no difference in damage when I change the flags (testing in FF2us). Anyone else test this?

Yes, it works.. for both spells and weaponry. It may not look that good for the weaponry because the hit rate is subpar, but it's consistant with what I already know.
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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 06:56:56 PM »
In working on the equipment for my hack, I've been doing some experiments with the elemental and status bytes. I did some tests against Zeromus to check for his elemental reactions. Things work as described in the above posts, with a few exceptions:

1. The first form of Zeromus, fought by FuSoYa and Golbez (enemy set B4), reacts to any dark-elemental spell/item. It doesn't need to be the Crystal to have him kill your party and end the battle. As Deathlike2 stated, dark-elemental weapons don't work.

2. The second form of Zeromus (enemy set B7), reacts only to the Crystal, and only when the Crystal is dark-elemental. Other spells/items/weapons do not work, and changing the element on the Crystal makes it not work.

Also, when I originally tried testing this, I created an event to load the moon map and then fight enemy set B7. However, when I did this, Zeromus only cast Charm on me, over and over again. My characters never even got a turn. Does anyone know why this is?

Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 07:31:22 PM »
2. The second form of Zeromus (enemy set B7), reacts only to the Crystal, and only when the Crystal is dark-elemental. Other spells/items/weapons do not work, and changing the element on the Crystal makes it not work.

I believe the Crystal is running some special code that allows the attack to hit, even though it does nothing for damage. He's also running though invincibility, but that's running the special enemy invincibility stuff (no stat being set to 255).

Quote
Also, when I originally tried testing this, I created an event to load the moon map and then fight enemy set B7. However, when I did this, Zeromus only cast Charm on me, over and over again. My characters never even got a turn. Does anyone know why this is?

Battle location affects the script set in use. If you try fighting in say the Lunar Subterrain, you should get a working Zeromus.

Note, the Drain elemental aspect of Drain does absolultely nothing for Drain/Osmose (the elemental properties of the spell are totally ignored).
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 07:51:59 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2008, 08:29:51 PM »
Quote
I believe the Crystal is running some special code that allows the attack to hit, even though it does nothing for damage. He's also running though invincibility, but that's running the special enemy invincibility stuff (no stat being set to 255).

The Crystal does run some special code. I've found a couple of special checks for it in the Spell casting subroutine and somewhere else I forget. I just wanted to point out that these are only relevant to the second time the Crystal is used (by Cecil) and not the first time (by Golbez).

Quote
Battle location affects the script set in use. If you try fighting in say the Lunar Subterrain, you should get a working Zeromus.

Aha, didn't know that. Thanks.

Quote
Note, the Drain elemental aspect of Drain does absolultely nothing for Drain/Osmose (the elemental properties of the spell are totally ignored).

OK, that makes sense. I retested using the Crystal Sword, and it worked as you said. My first tests were using the Drain spell and the Drain equipment. I didn't notice a difference when using the Drain equipment, but perhaps I just missed it.

Deathlike2

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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2008, 08:52:18 PM »
Quote
Battle location affects the script set in use. If you try fighting in say the Lunar Subterrain, you should get a working Zeromus.

Aha, didn't know that. Thanks.

I personally have no idea what bits tell the game the script to use.. but consider that monster formation seems to be set by location.

There's a nice beastiary code for the game, that works just fine.. but since the location isn't quite set, the monster scripts tend to freeze the game.. so you have to choose between the Lunar Overworld vs the Lunar Subterrain (and there are probably other locations that should work just the same) to get it all working properly.

As an aside, there's like 4 Golbez scripts. One is the scripted Tellah battle.. one is the same battle, but no auto-battle being done. Then there's another one that runs the Golbez-Rydia thing correctly (but won'tcan't kill Kain v3 and Edge)... and the other one that seems to do it in reverse (well, in terms of Golbez's invicbility) and that'll screw you over.
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Re: Elemental Reference Guide
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2008, 09:37:20 PM »
Nice discovery with the Crystal, I never bothered testing dark-elemental magic against Zeromus and just assumed it would hit him. That means I can give dark elemental spells to the final party. :happy:

I really want to get back to work on that hack...