Poll

Which Soul Saved fix did you apply?

Fix A: Protects Soul Saver from Instant Death.
3 (60%)
Fix B: Prevents battle from ending while an enemy is using Zinger.
2 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Author Topic: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved  (Read 2769 times)

13375K31C43R

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Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« on: June 15, 2015, 08:46:09 PM »
Hi! Another doubleheader, this time with two bug fixes.

The first requires an undead enemy, a weapon that kills enemies with an X animation, and the Life 3 spell. If an undead enemy is attacked by such a weapon, it automatically revives itself with full HP. If said undead enemy had Life 3 cast on it beforehand, it will die, revive...and then Life 3 will kill it again. You read that right: Life 3, which is supposed to prevent death, can actually make death happen. Needless to say, that won't be the case if this patch is applied.

The second applies to the battle against Wrexsoul. Wrexsoul has an ability called Zinger which targets a party member, then removes Wrexsoul from battle until that party member dies. Meanwhile, you have Wrexsoul's Soul Saver friends to keep you company...and they automatically revive when killed. However, a cheap way to win the battle is to banish the Soul Savers using X-Zone, which will prevent them from reviving for one turn. If Wrexsoul happens to be using Zinger while you do this, there'll be no enemies left and you'll win. This patch makes this cheat impossible.

By the way, I couldn't find a way to make the Killer Life 3 patch work without using up free space. So it uses free space bytes C2/6772-C2/677D.

EDIT: Finally got the Killer Life 3 patch working correctly. All it does now is prevent Life 3 from reviving an Undead entity.

EDIT 2: I've recently made updates to the Dead in the Air fix, including a different algorithm. Since Killer Life 3 conflicts with Dead in the Air, I've now had to update Killer Life 3 accordingly. If you haven't downloaded and applied Dead in the Air, you're good to go. Otherwise, you'll need to download the new version of both patches. Remember to apply Dead in the Air first.

EDIT 3: I've now included a Killer Life 3 patch for the Japanese version of the ROM. I want to make a Japanese patch for Soul Saved as well, but I can't find the monster attribute data in the Japanese ROM in order to make the Soul Savers immune to Instant Death.

EDIT 4: I've now made the Japanese patches for Soul Saved. I've also reduced the size of the Fix B patches by a considerable amount.

EDIT 5: I've now included Fix B patches designed for use with the latest version of "Dead in the Air". "Dead in the Air" should be applied first.

EDIT 6: Due to an update to "Dead in the Air", the compatibility patches needed to be updated; namely, a function using free space needed to be shifted.

EDIT 7: "Dead in the Air" was updated again and that required that function to be shifted again. I'm a bit disgusted with myself for not moving the function all the way over in case this happened, but as a bonus, I've also ported the patches to GBA!

EDIT 8: Killer Life 3 now has GBA patches!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:53:25 AM by 13375K31C43R »
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

koala_knight

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 01:21:00 AM »
The Soul Saved patch makes sense, but I don't see what the problem is with Killer Life 3. The Life spells are supposed to kill undead because healing magics have a reversed effect on them. So I don't see a problem with that scenario.

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 01:26:09 AM »
The problem is that Life 3's revival sequence isn't even supposed to trigger at all because the enemy is still alive.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

C. V. Reynolds

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 03:34:29 AM »
Hi.

I have two questions about Soul Saved fix 2:

1: When you say compatible with "Gogo and the Cursed Shield", do you mean the original or your fixed version?

2: What happens if you X-Zone the Soul Savers after applying this? Do they stay gone for the whole battle or do they eventually revive? I don't have a save at that spot to check this myself.

You're still doing great work.
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koala_knight

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2015, 05:14:44 AM »
The problem is that Life 3's revival sequence isn't even supposed to trigger at all because the enemy is still alive.

Technically, yes in the game's internal terms. However, I think that the logic here is that what is being represented here is that this undead creature is hit with an instant kill attack as opposed to a spell effect. Think of it like the red skeletons in Castlevania. They are not immune to being destroyed by your weapon, they simply reconstitute themselves in the event that they are "killed". So in effect they are dead for a moment, they simply come back like the PCs in Dead Souls.

Now the Life 3 spell can be thought of in the fiction of the game as a program much the same as the actual code that makes it up. The spell has one function: if the entity I'm attached to is killed, then I will cast Life on it. It doesn't know the nature of the being it is used on any more than the regular Life spells do.

So I don't see this as a bug at all. Plus it doesn't do anything to ruin the balance of the game like the Vanish + X-Zone bug or Soul Saved obviously do.
Just my two cents, though. (Probably more like a buck 25 now, lol.)


Oh, and about Soul Saver itself, I voted option 2. The first option is far simpler, but the second might put the player into a situation where it might be advantageous to take out their own party member and that's just a way more interesting possibility.

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2015, 05:49:32 AM »
Quote
1: When you say compatible with "Gogo and the Cursed Shield", do you mean the original or your fixed version?

Both, because the flawed part of the patch that I found a fix for doesn't collide with this patch. The only conflict here involves a JSR that is modified by "Gogo and the Cursed Shield", which is merely shifted by my patch.

Quote
2: What happens if you X-Zone the Soul Savers after applying this? Do they stay gone for the whole battle or do they eventually revive? I don't have a save at that spot to check this myself.

They'll stay gone until one of your characters takes another turn. I tried this myself to see what would happen if Wrexsoul was in mid-Zinger when this occurred; your characters won't be able to do anything meaningful in terms of attacking or killing each other to make Wrexsoul evacuate the possessee, but you can just heal and that'll cause the Soul Savers to respawn.

What happens is, they normally revive as a "final attack", which is what they do when they die, but X-Zone stalls all final attacks for one turn.

Quote
Technically, yes in the game's internal terms. However, I think that the logic here is that what is being represented here is that this undead creature is hit with an instant kill attack as opposed to a spell effect. Think of it like the red skeletons in Castlevania. They are not immune to being destroyed by your weapon, they simply reconstitute themselves in the event that they are "killed". So in effect they are dead for a moment, they simply come back like the PCs in Dead Souls.

Now the Life 3 spell can be thought of in the fiction of the game as a program much the same as the actual code that makes it up. The spell has one function: if the entity I'm attached to is killed, then I will cast Life on it. It doesn't know the nature of the being it is used on any more than the regular Life spells do.

If you want to look at it that way, go ahead, but I really do think it's a bug. Think of it this way: there's a way to make one of your characters gain the Undead status, by equipping it with the Relic Ring found in Owzer's House. If that character is attacked by a killing weapon, they won't die at all, but will instead regain all of their HP. An undead enemy's reaction is basically the same, and it also regains full HP, but the process looks different and the healing is invisible to the player. So I think the mentality here is that the undead enemy shouldn't have died at all, it just looks like they did. But, in the interest of money idioms, a penny for your thoughts.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 08:25:29 AM »
OK, I've fixed the problem with the Killer Life 3 patch, and now the game does in fact neglect to cast Life 3 after an X-kill. However, now whenever Life 3 triggers on an Undead enemy, the sound effect plays but the animation is not seen and the enemy is, in fact, not revived. This does not apply to player characters or non-Undead enemies. I think it has something to do with the fact that Undead enemies get killed by Life.
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Xenovant

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 11:05:47 AM »
Once again, great work.

About the "Killer Life 3" fix, I think the same as Koala_knight. Yeah, I know it's a bug, but I think it's better to leave it unfixed. It doesn't make you think that something is wrong, it's a funny way of killing them and it isn't an exploit (it's much easier to simply cast "Life" on them, it's a waste of time and MPs).

About "Soul Saved"... I prefer the fix A (I already voted on the poll). I think it's being practical vs. being a purist.

Cons of fix A:
-An enemy, that you will only see once, won't have the same immunities as in the original game.

Pros of fix A:
-It can be easily added/removed with ff3usme.
-No modified code? No future headaches :P
-If the player kills both SoulSavers, with fix B, he must wait 1 turn until they reappear. It could even make him feel that something is wrong, because they aren't respawning instantly, like normally.

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2015, 02:30:59 PM »
Quote
About the "Killer Life 3" fix, I think the same as Koala_knight. Yeah, I know it's a bug, but I think it's better to leave it unfixed. It doesn't make you think that something is wrong, it's a funny way of killing them and it isn't an exploit (it's much easier to simply cast "Life" on them, it's a waste of time and MPs).

I still think it's worth fixing. Sure, it's not worth it to follow this tedious process just to cast Life 3 on an Undead enemy in a normal game, but in a hacked game an Undead enemy may appear alongside an enemy that knows Life 3. And, as a matter of fact, given that Life is meant to kill Undead enemies, it doesn't make any sense that Life should also be able to revive them, and in fact it can't. The Relic Ring has the power to make one of your characters undead (not Zombified, there's a difference), and while that character is wearing it, if they get KO'd, they CANNOT be revived. Repeat: they CANNOT be revived, no matter how many times you try to use Life on them. It seems logical that the same should apply to undead enemies.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

Xenovant

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2015, 03:13:23 PM »
I completely agree, every bug it's worth fixing. I'm the first one thinking on a bugfree FF6 (keep dreaming xDD), don't get me wrong :P. I'm just saying that, this one, in the "sea of bugs" of this game, is harmless and funny.

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 03:24:46 PM »
It's not ENTIRELY harmless, it's just not likely to happen. If an Undead enemy is killed in this abnormal way, it will impact the outcome of the battle. But you're right, in the realm of bugs to fix, this one is relatively minor. But hey, a bug's a bug, y'know?

In fact, most of the bugs I've fixed so far are, in general, pretty darn minor, just because the big ones like the Sketch Bug and the Rippler Bug and the Evade Bug and the Psycho Cyan Bug have already been fixed, but that's not stopping anyone from correcting other rather trivial details. Final Fantasy VI, as awesome a game as it is, has TONS of bugs, big and small. Remove all those bugs, though, and you have a game that's truly spectacular. And I don't know if we'll really be able to fix EVERYTHING, but with everything we do fix we get that much closer. In short, every little bit counts.
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13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 09:09:41 PM »
Bumping this for the new SFC patches.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2017, 06:06:10 AM »
:bump: Update to Soul Saved!
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2018, 08:26:31 PM »
:bump: Another update, and a GBA port!
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

13375K31C43R

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Re: Two new patches: Killer Life 3, Soul Saved
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2018, 08:54:24 AM »
And now a GBA port for Killer Life 3 as well!
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings