Author Topic: Kefka kamikaze  (Read 311 times)

13375K31C43R

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Kefka kamikaze
« on: February 28, 2017, 11:30:51 AM »
I was just thinking about this glitch, and there are a couple of easy ways to fix it that I can think of. One is to add a condition to the "Kefka death" animation of his script that someone has to be alive in the party, and the other is to make the animation void party annihilation. Which would be preferable?

I guess a more realistic fix would be to add a condition that there's someone left alive in the entire 12-character line-up, but that would be pretty damn tricky.
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Lenophis

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Re: Kefka kamikaze
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 01:41:55 PM »
The problem is the game checks for monster AI first, before checking to see if the party is wiped out.

One is to add a condition to the "Kefka death" animation of his script that someone has to be alive in the party
If not done properly, Kefka will just instantly die then (without his fancy fadeout).

Quote
and the other is to make the animation void party annihilation.
I have another idea. Upon death, set his HP to full, and then check to see if the party is alive. If so, fancy death. That way, he doesn't insta-die, but then he'll still go through the animation if you win. Like this:
Code: [Select]
FC 12 00 00    ; If following monster is/are dead:
F5 00 00 0F    ; Monsters #1, #2, #3, #4 , if hidden/dead, brought in with their HP restored, suddently
FC 13 00 01    ; If 1 ally(ies) or more remain
FA 0D 01 00    ; Background gets darker, sounds like boss dying
F5 11 01 FF    ; Monsters #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 are killed, disintegrates, background may corrupt, screen goes black (final Kefka's death)
FE             ; End If and reset targeting
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 02:09:54 PM by Lenophis »

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13375K31C43R

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Re: Kefka kamikaze
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 02:04:20 PM »
The problem is the game checks for monster AI first, before checking to see if the party is wiped out.

One is to add a condition to the "Kefka death" animation of his script that someone has to be alive in the party
If not done properly, Kefka will just instantly die then (without his fancy fadeout).

The problem as I see it is, the whole point of the fancy fadeout is to accentuate the fact that you beat the game, except that if your party is all dead, then arguably you didn't really win. Against any boss, including (apparently) Kefka, the win doesn't count if your party is wiped out in the process, so having an insta-death animation as opposed to the fancy fadeout doesn't really bother me. In fact, one thing that happens in the video is that the wrong "game over" music is played, which could be a side effect for all I know.

Quote
and the other is to make the animation void party annihilation.
I have another idea. Upon death, set his HP to full, and then check to see if the party is alive. If so, fancy death. That way, he doesn't insta-die, but then he'll still go through the animation if you win.

The point of voiding party annihilation is that it would make sacrificing your party immaterial as long as Kefka is beaten. Basically, the question is, if your party is wiped out by the same move that beats Kefka, should that count as beating the game or not? The answer, currently, is ambiguous, which I believe is why this weird stuff happens. Your solution basically just removes the insta-death animation from the scenario described above. I agree that would be preferable to having insta-death, but if we decide that the player can win by defeating Kefka in a kamikaze move, then this wouldn't be desirable.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

Lenophis

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Re: Kefka kamikaze
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 02:19:27 PM »
Basically, the question is, if your party is wiped out by the same move that beats Kefka, should that count as beating the game or not?
I don't think it should, and I don't think it's even ambiguous. If you die, it's game over. What happens afterwards is irrelevant, even if it includes saving the world. The ending kinda confirms this, since everyone that you recruited escapes the tower safely, and alive.

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Imzogelmo

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Re: Kefka kamikaze
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 08:52:35 PM »
Interesting glitch. It seems to me that it should just check party death before doing Kefka's fancy death. If the party is dead, halt everything and trigger game over.
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Re: Kefka kamikaze
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 01:33:15 PM »
Quote
I guess a more realistic fix would be to add a condition that there's someone left alive in the entire 12-character line-up, but that would be pretty damn tricky.

i'm favoring this way, too.  if backup characters can step into a multi-part battle, why should they be incapable of standing over Kefka's disintegrated remains and nodding so the ending can commence?

can the game ever have dead characters in the $0205 list, or does it pre-screen for that, or pre-revive them even?  i don't recall how that works.

honestly, however annoying Kefka's long death animation may be if you didn't truly win, i don't find it erroneous -- he did die, after all.  all i find outright wrong in the video is the long wait after that, and the WoB music.

the tricky thing is, while the monster script is a good place to "get in front of" the special battle event and animation, its language is limited in flexibility for doing what one wants (unless you write a custom command).