Author Topic: exit/smoke?  (Read 1056 times)

chillyfeez

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exit/smoke?
« on: May 11, 2015, 12:39:11 PM »
Something occurred to me just now...

For a loing while, we seemed to collectively think that running from battle was based on some amount of luck, or an invisible/misunderstood stat, or whatever. But it seems like - according to Grimoire's research - as long as one party member is ready to act and the battle allows retreat, running (with L/R) has guaranteed success.
So why, then, are there two spells that cost MP and are limited to particular casters devoted to a free skill that is usable by everybody?

Am I missing something?

 :edit:
Right - it's not always free. Sometimes costs GP.
Still, is that the only advantage to those spells?

JCE3000GT

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 02:15:22 PM »
Wow, that's a good point.  But when I play the Japanese version running isn't always as quick and guaranteed.  Try running from a Behemoth or Death Mask.  Perhaps that's what they were designed for?

Trivia, I use Smoke as an experiment to test different effects.  Never liked that spell.

Something also occurred to me, using Exit or Smoke doesn't have the party lose GP. 

chillyfeez

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 02:28:01 PM »
Behemoth and EvilMask both have the Boss bit set. Shouldn't that make escape impossible by any means?
If you can still Exit/Smoke out of those battles (or if I'm wrong about not being able to run from bosses), then that answers my question, I guess...

Grimoire LD

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 02:51:11 PM »
Wow, that's a good point.  But when I play the Japanese version running isn't always as quick and guaranteed.  Try running from a Behemoth or Death Mask.  Perhaps that's what they were designed for?

Trivia, I use Smoke as an experiment to test different effects.  Never liked that spell.

Something also occurred to me, using Exit or Smoke doesn't have the party lose GP.

That's only because of Speed, I'd imagine...

I just tested running from a Boss Bit Imp and the same instant run occurred.

Now let's see what happens when I set an EvilMask...

No issue, Speed lets one action occur before the player can run. But that's it basically. I tested this by setting the Speed of an EvilMask down to 1-3 and the run was immediate.

I imagine the same will follow with Behemoth...

No problem running from a Behemoth. It's quite likely you may have imagined that running wasn't as quick because enemy's had a decent enough Speed to attack you as soon as the battle began instead of several seconds afterwards.

Yes, the only purpose of Exit and Smoke are to avoid losing GP. Hence why they're some of the first spells I get rid of (once an actual run statistic is put into the game, that will no longer be an issue)


chillyfeez

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 03:09:45 PM »
Yes, the only purpose of Exit and Smoke are to avoid losing GP. Hence why they're some of the first spells I get rid of (once an actual run statistic is put into the game, that will no longer be an issue)

Mmm-hmm...
As soon as I get around to it, consider these spells banished from my hack...

Except, Exit has its important out-of-battle usage.
Ah, Got it - I'll look into making it sort of like a "Sneeze." That is, like a White mage's death spell, except the player gets no experience/GP for the ousted monster.

When I get around to it.

I'll put it on the list with "actual confusion."

Grimoire LD

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 03:26:49 PM »
Yes, the only purpose of Exit and Smoke are to avoid losing GP. Hence why they're some of the first spells I get rid of (once an actual run statistic is put into the game, that will no longer be an issue)

Mmm-hmm...
As soon as I get around to it, consider these spells banished from my hack...

Except, Exit has its important out-of-battle usage.
Ah, Got it - I'll look into making it sort of like a "Sneeze." That is, like a White mage's death spell, except the player gets no experience/GP for the ousted monster.

When I get around to it.

I'll put it on the list with "actual confusion."

Ah, then I take it you're aware of the special routine to run to produce such an effect? I should note that Mystic Quest's Exit did what you said. Kills the foe without giving Exp or rewards.

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 04:36:45 PM »
There is absolutely more to it than that. Try running from Breath or Mind. You're permitted to flee but it takes forever.

I take it back, after some more thorough testing, it was my imagination after all...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 04:54:48 PM by Pinkpuff »
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Grimoire LD

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 05:10:24 PM »
There is absolutely more to it than that. Try running from Breath or Mind. You're permitted to flee but it takes forever.

Both Breath and Mind have very high speed (the highest in the game, actually) and seem to always act before the player because of it. Breath's first action is to scan a party member and display a message as this is part of a chain no action can be taken during it. This can be tested by setting their speed down to nothing and you can run from them freely. Their 69 Speed guarantees them a couple of turns before a character can act.


Deathlike2

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Re: exit/smoke?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 01:25:44 AM »
Behemoth has a low natural speed so I don't know what to tell you. Behemoths do attack on their own, but that's all relative to your speed. As you get faster (have better overall group agility), you'll inherently notice the Behemoths attack less on their own.

There may be a special check for the battle data for run difficulty (just for the monster grouping specifically or perhaps the speed value/index the monster uses) than being completely reliant on the boss bit.

Money dropped is always 1/4 of whatever you would have normally gotten in the battle (assuming no summoned/hidden monsters) or whatever you have left (in the case of "running out of money"), whichever is lower.

 :edit:
Behemoths are Monks in disguise. Think about it for a moment (outside of the Avenger Sword).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:31:35 AM by Deathlike2 »
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