Author Topic: FF II: A Threat from Within - Expanded ROM = New Features!  (Read 35771 times)

chillyfeez

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FF II: A Threat from Within - Expanded ROM = New Features!
« on: February 22, 2014, 10:46:19 AM »
Well, at long last, here it is!
This is the playable preview for my hack, Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within.
Not much explanation is needed for the story, because the preview has a lot of exposition.
Apply the linked patch to a clean, headered FF2US v 1.1 ROM and have fun!
FFII: A Threat from Within
(btw - I've never shared a file using Google Drive, but the patch is too big to post here. Did this link work?)

Now, even this preview is not a completely finished product. Every time I would fix one little thing, something else cropped up that I wanted to fix, so it sort of turned into a neverending spiral. Eventually, I had to get to a point where I was at least satisfied enough that I could let other people test it out.
That being said, here are a list of known issues with the preview, separated into two categories: Things that NEED to be fixed eventually, and Things I am not convinced I'm fully satisfied with...

NEEDS to be fixed:
-The Title Screen - I don't really know how/if it's possible to change this fully. I want to keep the "Final Fantasy II" Logo, but I want to add words beneath. My assumption is that much of the black screen is the same tile repeated over and over again. Anybody have any thoughts/knowledge about this?

-The revolving earth in the intro - somehow, the earth got screwed up. It's been like this as long as I can remember, and I've never touched it (not on purpose anyway). It's not a big deal, but it's a very noticeable cosmetic issue that occurs, literally, in the first minute of the game. And again, I don't know how to fix this.

-If you use ZSNES, like I do, for your recreational (read: non-hacking) emulation, don't create a save (.srm) file. For some reason, ZSNES freezes if there is a saved game. Save states seem to work fine. Also, SNES9X works fine with regular save files. Weird.

-Learning Ninja spells at level-up: In order to accommodate the different types of magic in the game, I had to change "Call" into "Jutsu" (Ninja magic), so that "Ninja" could be "Beast." As a result, Ninja spells don't seem to be appearing in their spell sets when learned at level-up. It doesn't affect gameplay in the preview much... Ninja spells kinda suck anyway, but it's definitely something that must be fixed eventually. Grimoire LD, didn't you find something recently that regulates how the game knows where to put learned spells, and more importantly how to turn that off?

-Mog's (The Mime, or "CopyCat" in this game) "Copy" ability (not to be confused with Mime) produces some strange results when used on a party member. It's intended to be used only on enemies, so eventually, I plan to rewrite the command to simply return a "Nothing Happened" if used on allies. Just haven't gotten to it yet.

-Kunai: I rewrote the "Dart" command to account for weapon elements (more on this later), specifically so that I could introduce a new throwing weapon, the elemental Kunai. One problem - when they're thrown, they look like fists. Anyone have any insight on how to change the look of a thrown weapon?

-Jinn: The boss at the end of the first (and only, here) chapter, Jinn, is not a final product. I created him before I learned how to manipulate "Special" sizes, and as such he does not change form during the battle. It'll be pretty obvious at which point this will eventually happen. Again, just haven't gotten to it yet.

-Twin: Rydia and Blank (the hired ninja) use FuSoYa and Golbez's character slots, respectively. As such, they are drawn into the Twin command if they're in the party. For Rydia, it's not a big deal because in the real game she'll never be in the party with Palom and Porom, but Blank is another story. Here's one for you again, Grimoire. I tried to look at your disassembly and notes for Twin, but there's so much! do you recall if you found out where the game defaults to Golbez and FuSoYa for Twin casting? I'd love to just shut that off completely. An eventual rewrite is also planned (I have a vague theory) that will incorporate a white magic-style Twin spell in the mix, but first I have to fix the real buggy issue...

Not as Important:
-Saved game files (using SNES9X) don't properly display the character's HP. This is bizarre, and does not affect the actual game at all, but I have no idea why it's happening.

-Not all of Kella's (the Blue Mage) Beast skills are available in the preview, partly because not all of them are finished products. There will eventually be 18 (... I think). In the preview, she starts with 9 and can learn 5 (... I think) more.

-There's no Shadow party in the preview, so stats will be reset when you switch out a party member. In the real game, Palom, Porom, Usrula, Kella and Mog will all have shadow slots (and Ceodore will use Mog's once or twice before Mog becomes available).

-Regarding the rewritten Dart command... The elemental part was necessary, mostly because of how I plan for it to trigger enemy reactions (you'll see some of that in the preview), but I'm not sure I'm 100% satisfied with it. I think it might be too weak. I haven't decided yet. What do you think?

So anyway, there you go!
Help on any of the above issues would be appreciated (and will earn a special place in the credits, of course).
Let me know if you discover any bugs/issues not listed here.
Suggestions will be considered. Of course, feasibility with my plot outline and whether something can actually be done are factors there.
 :edit: New version linked above 3/4/12
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 11:34:02 AM by chillyfeez »

Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 03:03:03 PM »
This sounds incredible! I will definitely try this out as soon as I can! as for your queries...

Your Google Drive works fine as a download, no worries there.

1.-Learning Ninja spells at level-up: In order to accommodate the different types of magic in the game, I had to change "Call" into "Jutsu" (Ninja magic), so that "Ninja" could be "Beast." As a result, Ninja spells don't seem to be appearing in their spell sets when learned at level-up. It doesn't affect gameplay in the preview much... Ninja spells kinda suck anyway, but it's definitely something that must be fixed eventually. Grimoire LD, didn't you find something recently that regulates how the game knows where to put learned spells, and more importantly how to turn that off?

I'll take a quick peek in FF4kster to see if my idea is correct... Hmm, strange. It doesn't open in FF4kster


Hmm... something must have gone wrong with the patching... odd. Maybe it wasn't a clean rom I patched it to? Ah, there we go. Alright then now let's see...

Yep, as I thought. You still have the Jutsu command on the Call Spellset rather than the Black Spellset, which is where everything past the Summons is written to (which on closer reading is what you just said). To change it so that All spells past Imp are written to Call you will want to change...

Code: [Select]
$03/F16C C9 42 CMP #$42 A:0001 X:0100 Y:1A35 P:envMxdIzC - Is it Flood or Greater? (Interesting, I guess you can by default put Comet and Flare in the Summon Spellbook without issue)
$03/F16E B0 F5 BCS $F5    [$F165] A:0001 X:0100 Y:1A35 P:envMxdIzC  - Is so branch back 03F165. (Black Magic spellbook input)

To...

$03/F16C   C9 42   CMP #$48   A:0001   X:0100   Y:1A35   P:envMxdIzC - Is it Dummy or Greater? (Rod's Attack, follows right after Ninjutsu)
$03/F16E   B0 F5   BCS $F5    [$F165]   A:0001   X:0100   Y:1A35   P:envMxdIzC - If so branch back to 03F165 - Black Magic Spellbook input.

And That should fix that problem.

Hey neat! you got Dart to have Elemental! How did you manage that out of curiosity? As far as I could tell the elemental of the thrown weapon was nowhere to be found in data. I thought thrown Weapons looked as the graphic for them did?

2) Yes, Golbez and FuSoYa checks are long before the rest of the Twin's Routine. The only issue you might find is they will Only cast that single spell, unless you change it. You could Easily have the FuSoYa replacement cast the "Failed" spell in the Twin's normal routine by branching to that, changing the message to a spell (very simple) and changing it so that this piece of code is never accessed by the FF failure.

Code: [Select]
$03/E56E BD 00 20 LDA $2000,x[$7E:2080] A:0000 X:0080 Y:0005 P:envMxdiZc - Load Character 1's Character ID into A.
$03/E571 29 1F AND #$1F A:0089 X:0080 Y:0005 P:eNvMxdizc - Get rid of 80.
$03/E573 C9 13 CMP #$13 A:0009 X:0080 Y:0005 P:envMxdizc -  Is it FuSoYa?
$03/E575 F0 04 BEQ $04    [$E57B] A:0009 X:0080 Y:0005 P:eNvMxdizc - If so branch to 03E57B.
$03/E577 C9 15 CMP #$15 A:0009 X:0080 Y:0005 P:eNvMxdizc - Is it Golbez?
$03/E579 D0 04 BNE $04    [$E57F] A:0009 X:0080 Y:0005 P:eNvMxdizc - If not branch to 03E57F.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$03/E57B A9 5E LDA #$5E A:0015 X:0080 Y:0005 P:envMxdiZC - Load W. Meteo
$03/E57D 80 19 BRA $19    [$E598] A:005E X:0080 Y:0005 P:envMxdizC - Branch Always to 03E598.

Now off to try the game itself!

Very nice wordless intro!

Oh you gave Eblan the "Within the Giant" Theme. How neat!

The introduction of the Job Cards made be absolutely giddy!

Ah, the first character you play is a Ninja. I'll go ahead and make that fix and see if it does the trick.

Haha! Oh, you nailed Edge's character perfectly! That pause between the first message the next is very well timed.

Eblan looks to be more based on FFIV:TAY, very nice choice.

Hah! Furio has green eyes! A nice subtle touch, to I assume his mother's side.

Ah, very interesting use of the loss of the Crystal's power. FFIV seems to say that Troia without the Crystal would become a desert and Tellah says something to a similar vein in the DS version. So it is curious to see what the effects of a world that can no longer rely on its Crystals for balance will end up being.

Oh ho! You surely do make exploring worthwhile. I wonder how difficult the start of the game would be without this...

I love the variety of this weapon store.

Gah, oh man... I *think* I'll save my Job Card for now.

(Out on the Field) Any plans to use a different kind of Stealing System? I mean, it seems that since you've put Steal in that you would want it to be semi-useful in some regard. Stealing the first obtaininable item on an enemy is often not very helpful.

Oh hey! Is that the Twins of the Moon theme from FFIX?!

Haha! Good work with that dancer NPC, even gave her a bit of character by having her flip around several times in surprise if you say no.

Oh! Almost left without grinding Gil for the Claw.

I'm not sure why it says B2F when you enter Eblan Castle, I'm sure you'll fix that easily enough.

Nice boat ride sequence.

Hah! That was some pretty neat event animation there in Agart!

Oh wait, you did change Steal! I just Stole Ice Kunai from an Imp! No wait... that's all I can steal from him. Hmm... I guess this is a special Imp then.

Hmm, also I can't appear to use Ice Kunai from Dart...

Ah yes, it is a special Imp. (Checks FF4kster breezes through the Item List as not to spoil himself) Now that is strange, I can clearly see they are marked as Throwable but... Oh! It might have something to do with them being Stolen. So they can't "actually" be used in the first battle they are obtained. I will need to clarify that. Also you are right. the weapon itself has a different Sprite than what is being displayed... I might have to take a deeper look at that.

Yep, that's all it was. An interesting caveat...

Is that a new Bird Sprite I spot? Very nice attention to detail!

Just a note. It's name is still "Dummy".

Whoa! 72 Damage! To the Backrow I go.

Oh my heavens, a Mage...!

He used an attack called 2000 Needles and I instantly died. Hah. Alright. I think I might need some preparation before trying that one again...

(Steals 10 Cure1s,  Steal's 10 Ice Kunai) I fight a story Bomb... it uses Explode... which Petrifies me... and I lose. Hmm, okay.

Ah, so you made it so you can't leave Agart until you ?win? That is rather interesting, and I like the extra bit of animation put into that specific message.

So if I try to fight the Mage I will be 2000 Needled, and if I go to fight the Bomb I will be petrified... let's see if the two keys from the Imp and Cockatrice work. First key works, second one does not... hmm...

Maybe I should grind until I learn some Jutsu. Or not... 13 seems high enough. If not, I'll have to rethink some things.

Alright, the Bomb didn't have much HP to him... maybe that Petrification was intended?

Looks like 3 of the 4 keys don't work... seems I have to beat the Mage. And with three attacks, of over 150 Damage he used 2K needles and instantly killed me... alright then. Looks like I might need to pick up that Ninja with the Job Card.

Heh, if you refuse the sick dancer on the Agart side, she'll say "Not enough GP!" I'm not sure if that's intended. Though it might be.

Oh, the Ninja comes with a Karate gear, eh? That might make the difference....

That sells for a hefty 2000 GP! But... it might be too valuable to give up.

Um... in one battle against an Imp, Black went to Level 24 and the Exp to his net level jumped 75062. He didn't gain any stats though. I take it this is because he's using Edge's default TNL?

Hmm... it seems the game might have glitched here. In talking with the Imp, after I beat him, he didn't actually disappear. His sprite did, yes. But his collision is still there in the grass and talking to him makes the battle happen again and give another key.

4 Hits, it would have taken me alone to kill the Mage, *sigh...* ah well.

Hired Guns from REMA? Oh, that does sound interesting.

Hmm, it said "Flames extinguished..." but then he still did a highly powerful fire attack. Maybe it's not As powerful as it would be otherwise?  Hmm, I'm not sure what using the Ice Kunai does now, since Jinn still seems to act as if his flames have not been extinguished.

I see now. You use it when he says "The heat is on!!"

That was an interesting boss battle. And I wonder how difficult it would be without stealing the Ice Kunai, so I stand corrected. It is Very worthwhile to steal, at least for this section.

Oh! What a nice reward for completing the demo!

I will post my thoughts on that in a separate post. This demo was short, but it was extremely sweet! You set up a great air of character, atmosphere, and mystery that I cannot wait to see what the next part looks like!



Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 04:31:54 PM »
SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T COMPLETED THE DEMO!!


Character Descriptions - Ceodore using both White Magic and the Dark Sword, eh? That's rather neat I am curious to see how that will play out.

Dark Holy! Is that a reference to FFT? Dark Holy was always one of my favorite spell names.

Rydia will be even older? She would already be 44 (58 in actuality because the official bio somewhere says that she has matured to 16) by the normal flow of time alone.

Plead, hmm? That's a neat idea for a skill! And a nice reference to TAY.

Kella - Um... a little absurd, but alright.

Oh? You modified Avenger's properties to apply to more than one weapon, eh?

Ursula - Oh? She won't be getting Chakra or Tenketsu? Or are there just no more command slots left?

Palom/Porom - Even here you've put in that little touch of effort that shows. Palom and Porom would both be 50 so I guess these new sprites suit them well enough.

Blank: Quick Hit sounds rather neat!

Cinna: FFIX references abound! Mages have Aim, eh? An interesting idea to be sure.

Avon: Invincibility! That is too cool!

You have a great set-up here. Let's start with...

Ceodore -
Ceodore's face could use a little adjustment, but it was a good attempt.

Rydia -

Hmm, good work in aging her. It looks fairly legitimate.

Any particular reason Rydia can equip Claws? Or just a spur of the moment sort of thing?

Kella -

You did a fantastic job on Kella's portrait!

Mog -

You did an incredible job porting FFVI's portrait of Mog into FFIV and you even properly removed the previous guest. Good work!

Ursula  -

Something looks a little off in Ursula's portrait... maybe the hair is a little too close to skin tone?

Whoops! Just realized that kicked Ceodore out of the party, heh.

Kella's sprite looks pretty good in battle!

Ursula's sprite could use a little work though.

Mog, looks like he stepped right out of FFVI, awesome.

Hmm, targeting in some of the new formations seem a bit askewed. I know your pain in that regard... in the end I had to use existing formations and just replace enemies already in them.

Looks like Copy and Mime are working great.

Roc using Aero2, eh? I imagine that's a Blue Magic that might have been learned has she not been killed by it...

Hmm, what is TimeBomb, supposed to do?

I can't seem to get the Limit Skills to work. Even with save-state abuse they just don't seem to happen.

Is BigGuard just Protect or is it actually Protect and Shell?

Oh, in Ceodore's Dark Waveanimation you put the Sword! That's really neat.

Oh I see! It happens automatically when they're put into critical! I thought it was, Fight is used. Alright then.

Oh hey! That's how you learn Blue Magic. After the spell is used you target the enemy that used it. Quite intuitive.

Looks like all those fours Limit Skill's work.

Hmm, Palom and Porom's portraits could use a bit of work, good try though. That said, I love their sprites in battle! Porom's is just Faris in a Dancer's outfit, but it fits and Palom's looks like he's wearing Tellah's robes. Over all those are really good.

Hmm, I can't recall what Furio's Skill Attack was supposed to be. From here it just looked like a normal attack.

Phoenix works great! Very well done in that!

Oh, I see what you mean now by Rydia. Yes, she is used in the Twin Casting and I assume the same will be true for Blank.. .hm...

Oh that is a neat animation for Plague!

Um... for the past 10 battles or so, Palom's used Plague immediately at the start of the fight when his turn came up. Now either that's some stupidly good luck, or something is wrong there.

Cure-Z seems pretty good.

Alright, that's this team tested.

(Sight changed to Scan) That's actually the most reasonable change of Sight I think I've seen.

Attack Barrage is definitely interesting...

I like the efforts taken to make Avon look different from Edward, shorter hair for instance, it works.

Ouch... Salve still seems useless, and for some reason he doesn't actually have Item, is that intended?

Um... Avon's Invincibility never wore off.

Oh, I forgot to comment on Avon's picture. It looks great! The difference between Edward and him is slight, but very noticeable.

"Play a slow one, Avon" "License to Ill?" Haha! That is too good! I think Avon will probably be one of my favorite characters.

Interesting. It took a while to get his fourth song to show up, but when it did it was Charm, so wow. Yes you did make Sing into a Very useful skill. Instant death on all foes, or Virus, or Slow, or Charm? It is all fantastic!

Ah right, Quick Hit is Furio/Blank's limit skill... suggestion might be to give Furio his own Limit Break, mainly because he's one of the main characters (and it seems it's his story we'll be following)

Ruby's portrait looks pretty good! Ah, Faris's White Mage Sprite, I wasn't expecting that, I'll say. Neat special animation though. I think that one is custom.

Can't go wrong with a traditional black mage, but that portrait is Terrifying! Haha!

Is Cinna a custom job? I don't recall a Black Mage looking similar to that in FFV at all. He looks great!

Cactuar, eh? You even put new monster sprites in battle? Great work!

Haha! You had to put a spoiler room, didn't you? Grr... Now I need to fight the temptation to read anything beyond the first part that I just read....

Whoa! That is quite a "sidequest" for an interesting "reward".

Gah, I regret reading too much, I didn't realize that "Would you like to hear more about the meaning of the game's title?" would imply so much... spoilering!

And that will do it! So far I Really like what I see. So much potential, so much variety. I absolutely love every bit of it!


chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 04:35:42 PM »
At work, so not a lot of time to respond.

The bomb and mage were not supposed to be like that. I made a last minute speed adjustment that must have screwed up their AI somehow. I'll fix that.

The cockatrice was called Dummy on purpose. It's a wink wink nod nod to those who know the summon was dummied out in the US game.

The level up of Blank is a known issue I forgot to mention. I have a patch of the proper level up data, but I have to fine tune it, so level-ups in general will be off.

Jinn should say "now I'm really mad" if you ice him too early, which would put him straight into "heat is on" mode. Did that not happen?

"Not enough GP" was on purpose, too. You'll get a feel for my sense of humor as you play.

Those are the quick answers. More later. Thanks for the feedback!

Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 04:39:33 PM »
On Jinn: I think that's what actually might have been happening. I hadn't taken notice of that.  Very clever! It's not so cut and dry then in that regard.

Oh! Of course, I can't believe I didn't think about that for the Cockatrice, haha!

Do you know how to actually move level-up data? I had thought we were stuck at the starting levels for characters because of the TNL table screwing everything up?

 :edit: I forgot to mention that the fix for Ninja Magic to be put into the Call Menu works. As evidenced by Furio learning Smoke at Level 15.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 06:09:17 PM by Grimoire LD »

JCE3000GT

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »
chillyfeez, send me an instant message on what you had in mind for the title screen and I may be able to help you out. 

chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 10:00:00 PM »
Ok, let's see what I can answer here...
To change it so that All spells past Imp are written to Call you will want to change...

Code: [Select]
$03/F16C C9 42 CMP #$42 A:0001 X:0100 Y:1A35 P:envMxdIzC - Is it Flood or Greater? (Interesting, I guess you can by default put Comet and Flare in the Summon Spellbook without issue)
$03/F16E B0 F5 BCS $F5    [$F165] A:0001 X:0100 Y:1A35 P:envMxdIzC  - Is so branch back 03F165. (Black Magic spellbook input)

To...

$03/F16C   C9 42   CMP #$48   A:0001   X:0100   Y:1A35   P:envMxdIzC - Is it Dummy or Greater? (Rod's Attack, follows right after Ninjutsu)
$03/F16E   B0 F5   BCS $F5    [$F165]   A:0001   X:0100   Y:1A35   P:envMxdIzC - If so branch back to 03F165 - Black Magic Spellbook input.

And That should fix that problem.
Thanks!
Quote
Hey neat! you got Dart to have Elemental! How did you manage that out of curiosity? As far as I could tell the elemental of the thrown weapon was nowhere to be found in data. I thought thrown Weapons looked as the graphic for them did?
I rewrote the execution portion of the command. I'll post the code in a later post, but basically, it puts the thrown weapon into the "caster stats" copy, puts the weapon element in same, changes hit rate to 100%, adds weapon power to modified strength then sets that as attack power, takes out back row status (if applicable), then jumps to the attack routine
Quote
Oh you gave Eblan the "Within the Giant" Theme. How neat!
It was always my favorite music in FFIV, so I had to use it prominently. It also contrasts with the intro music well (name of which escapes me - I think ofit as FuSoYa's theme)
Quote
Hah! Furio has green eyes! A nice subtle touch, to I assume his mother's side.
Had I already spoiled that bit somewhere? Or did you just assume? It's not supposed to be a big mystery, but it will be possible to play through without that ever being revealed.
I'm planning a few of those, btw, choices the player can make that affect minor bits of gameplay but not the overall outcome of the game.
Quote
Gah, oh man... I *think* I'll save my Job Card for now.
... and in future versions, you'll actually lose it when you use it.
Quote
(Out on the Field) Any plans to use a different kind of Stealing System? I mean, it seems that since you've put Steal in that you would want it to be semi-useful in some regard. Stealing the first obtaininable item on an enemy is often not very helpful.
Yes... stealing will be important... hopefully like it is in IX. Though I still have to devise a way for it to be not abusable... maybe automatically change the monster's item bit to 0 upon success? I'll try a few ideas out, I think.
Quote
Oh hey! Is that the Twins of the Moon theme from FFIX?!
I assume you mean the seaport music. It's not meant to be, but now that you mention it... I knew it sounded somewhat familiar.
Quote
I'm not sure why it says B2F when you enter Eblan Castle, I'm sure you'll fix that easily enough.
Oversight. I'll fix it.
Quote
Nice boat ride sequence.
Each initial trip will show the whole distance traveled. Subsequent trips to the same location will show only the arrival.
Quote
Hmm, also I can't appear to use Ice Kunai from Dart...

Ah yes, it is a special Imp. (Checks FF4kster breezes through the Item List as not to spoil himself) Now that is strange, I can clearly see they are marked as Throwable but... Oh! It might have something to do with them being Stolen. So they can't "actually" be used in the first battle they are obtained. I will need to clarify that. Also you are right. the weapon itself has a different Sprite than what is being displayed... I might have to take a deeper look at that.

Yep, that's all it was. An interesting caveat...
Yes, I'm at peace with that as a reality. If you have one already, then you can use them. If not, then you have to wait.
Quote
Is that a new Bird Sprite I spot? Very nice attention to detail!
Taken from FFVI!
Quote
Ah, so you made it so you can't leave Agart until you ?win? That is rather interesting, and I like the extra bit of animation put into that specific message.
Yeah, I figure it's early enough that it's ok if you lose and have to start over...
Quote
Looks like 3 of the 4 keys don't work... seems I have to beat the Mage.
Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec is a reference to FFVIII ;)
Quote
Hmm... it seems the game might have glitched here. In talking with the Imp, after I beat him, he didn't actually disappear. His sprite did, yes. But his collision is still there in the grass and talking to him makes the battle happen again and give another key.
Yeah... it doesn't always happen, but it happens sometimes, with any of those four minibosses. I might have to make them "fly away" instead of disappearing...
Quote
Hired Guns from REMA? Oh, that does sound interesting.
Yeah... I think of REMA sort of like FFVIII's SEED
Quote
That was an interesting boss battle. And I wonder how difficult it would be without stealing the Ice Kunai, so I stand corrected. It is Very worthwhile to steal, at least for this section.
You can use the IceShard that you pick up in a chest in Eblan (that's the ice magic item - I don't know what its common name is, because I've never played any non SNES american version of the original) to cool Jinn off. It should be possible to beat himusing only that,but you'll get pretty beat up in the process.
Quote
Oh! What a nice reward for completing the demo!
What is?

Thanks so much for all the feedback... now on to your next post...

chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 11:46:36 PM »
Dark Holy! Is that a reference to FFT? Dark Holy was always one of my favorite spell names.
I think it's used in FFVII also, by monsters but not party members.
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Rydia will be even older? She would already be 44 (58 in actuality because the official bio somewhere says that she has matured to 16) by the normal flow of time alone.
Yeah, like Tellah old
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Kella - Um... a little absurd, but alright.
Hey, I like Kella! You just think the idea of Leonora and Dark Elf getting together is far fetched? I promise I'll do my best to make it not completely ridiculous. Actually, before I ever watched HCBailley's TAY LP, the plan was always for Kella to be the offspring of an Epopt and the Dark Elf, so the existence of Leonora was kind of serendipity.
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Oh? You modified Avenger's properties to apply to more than one weapon, eh?
Ok, I haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure I can make it work... if my theory proves wrong, well... I'll have to give the idea the axe, I guess!
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Ursula - Oh? She won't be getting Chakra or Tenketsu? Or are there just no more command slots left?
Yeah... she'll be a kickass enough fighter without any other abilities. Again, not ideal, but I'm at peace with it.
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Blank: Quick Hit sounds rather neat!
It's not, really. That's by design. I needed balance between the different characters, so since Ninjas are in most respects going to be among the more useful party members, their Limit skill is one of the lamest.
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Cinna: FFIX references abound! Mages have Aim, eh? An interesting idea to be sure.
Cinna, Blank, Ruby and Avon are all taken from FFIX. Avon was originally going to be "Will," as in, The Bard. Then I realized, Lord Avon is FFIX's version of Shakespeare, so... there you go!
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Avon: Invincibility! That is too cool!
Probably my favorite, though maybe a bit cheap (even when it terminates like it's supposed to)
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Ceodore -
Ceodore's face could use a little adjustment, but it was a good attempt.
I'm not a huge fan of some of the portraits... Ceo and Ursula specifically... these were ported as best as I could from TAY. So was Porom, but she came out much better.
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Any particular reason Rydia can equip Claws? Or just a spur of the moment sort of thing?
Oversight. Will fix.
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You did a fantastic job on Kella's portrait!
Kella and Cinna's portraits were freehand, and are easily the best ones I made, imho. Kella's a hottie in general.
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Whoops! Just realized that kicked Ceodore out of the party, heh.
Just for the purpose of this demo, Ceo and Rydia bump each other out. In the actual game, they WILL be in the party at the same time, but Ursula, Kella, Palom and Porom won't at that time. I had to manage party size a bit differently for the demo.
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Kella's sprite looks pretty good in battle!
Rydia was largely used as the base for her battle sprites
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Ursula's sprite could use a little work though.
She's Yang with a blonde wig and a dress. I kinda like it that way, I think.
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Hmm, targeting in some of the new formations seem a bit askewed. I know your pain in that regard... in the end I had to use existing formations and just replace enemies already in them.
Not sure I know what you're saying here?
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Looks like Copy and Mime are working great.
Mime works perfectly. For a laugh, see what happens if you use "Copy" on Furio after he throws an ice kunai. You'll see why the command needs to be tweaked so it won't work on allies.
In general, though, Mog is my proudest creation. Mime and his limit break work exactly as I envisioned them!
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Roc using Aero2, eh? I imagine that's a Blue Magic that might have been learned has she not been killed by it...
The idea behind the training rooms was you'd have to level up a bit inthe first one before you can really survive the second... OR, you can "Learn" 2K Ndl from the cactuar and grind on cactuars after that ;)
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Hmm, what is TimeBomb, supposed to do?
Ha-ha! Glad you asked! It's based on FFVI's Step Mine. Since FFIV doesn't count steps, it's damage based on the amount of time spent playing.
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Is BigGuard just Protect or is it actually Protect and Shell?
Both. What's that unused spell subroutine that just jumps to two other subroutines? I used that.
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Hmm, Palom and Porom's portraits could use a bit of work, good try though. That said, I love their sprites in battle! Porom's is just Faris in a Dancer's outfit, but it fits and Palom's looks like he's wearing Tellah's robes. Over all those are really good.
I'm... satisfied with their portraits. If anything, Porom might be a little too youthfully pretty for mid-forties... I'd fix Ceo and Ursula before Palom and Porom.
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Um... for the past 10 battles or so, Palom's used Plague immediately at the start of the fight when his turn came up. Now either that's some stupidly good luck, or something is wrong there.
Well, no limit system is entirely unabusable, I guess... what's happening there is, because Plague kills the enemies right away, Palom ends the battle with the same HP, so limit conditions are still in effect at the beginning of the next battle. In the event Plague doesn't kill all enemies, he wouldn't use it a second time in the same battle.
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(Sight changed to Scan) That's actually the most reasonable change of Sight I think I've seen.
Oh yeah, forgot I did that.
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Ouch... Salve still seems useless, and for some reason he doesn't actually have Item, is that intended?
Yeah,I think I'm going to use your mod for salve. No item command was a mistake.
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Um... Avon's Invincibility never wore off.
That shouldn't happen. I've tested it. Will have to investigate, I guess.
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Ah right, Quick Hit is Furio/Blank's limit skill... suggestion might be to give Furio his own Limit Break, mainly because he's one of the main characters (and it seems it's his story we'll be following)
See above about balance.
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Is Cinna a custom job? I don't recall a Black Mage looking similar to that in FFV at all. He looks great!
He's from FFV... I think he might be Bartz with a "haircut."
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Cactuar, eh? You even put new monster sprites in battle? Great work!
I don't plan a whole lot of that, but I had to have Cactuars, because I had to have a thousand needle blue magic. Interesting story about that... there's also 10k needles. It's not in the demo but you can hack it in. The thousand needles formula is spell power x 500... except fr some reason it doesn't work for spell power 1 or 2 (500 or 1000 damage), which is why it's 2k Needles and not 1k needles. Yet again, not ideal, but I'm happy enough that I have no plan to fix it.

Oh, a bit more on Blue Magic... the eventual plan will be that the spells only cost 1-5 MP, but Kella will have very low max MP. Is there any good reason for this? Not especially. I thought it might be a nice way to set the really strong spells apart from the weaker ones...
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Whoa! That is quite a "sidequest" for an interesting "reward".
You mean the Rydia thing? It's not really a sidequest per se. It's a forced choice the player has to make with real implications. Sorta like in FFX-2. Yes, there are lots of nods to other FF games in this hack.
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Gah, I regret reading too much, I didn't realize that "Would you like to hear more about the meaning of the game's title?" would imply so much... spoilering!
Can't say Spoilingway didn't warn you! Did you give in to reading the rest?
Again, thanks for all the feedback and help!

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 12:05:32 PM »
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Had I already spoiled that bit somewhere? Or did you just assume? It's not supposed to be a big mystery, but it will be possible to play through without that ever being revealed.
I'm planning a few of those, btw, choices the player can make that affect minor bits of gameplay but not the overall outcome of the game.

I assumed (because Rydia and Edge are a cute couple and FFIV:TAY seemed to imply that they would finally actually have some sort of relationship.) mainly because of the bright green eyes (same as Rydia's) Which I have to say for an SNES game it is very impressive that you gave clues to the character's parentage purely based on graphics alone.

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Yes... stealing will be important... hopefully like it is in IX. Though I still have to devise a way for it to be not abusable... maybe automatically change the monster's item bit to 0 upon success? I'll try a few ideas out, I think.

That is the most valid option. The A6 byte does seem to hold the character or enemy that is being targeted I think. That is almost definitely the way to make the change to their stats stick.

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Oh! What a nice reward for completing the demo!
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What is?

Haha! The ability to test out the rest of the characters! That is a fantastic incentive to complete the story segment of the demo.

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Hey, I like Kella! You just think the idea of Leonora and Dark Elf getting together is far fetched? I promise I'll do my best to make it not completely ridiculous. Actually, before I ever watched HCBailley's TAY LP, the plan was always for Kella to be the offspring of an Epopt and the Dark Elf, so the existence of Leonora was kind of serendipity.

Heh, it's just I'm a large supporter of Leonora/Palom. The two are such an adorable couple. But with Palom being... him. I could see how Leonora would grow tired of him with time. Overall it's a good idea, I am curious though to know what will make Leonora find a common soul in "YOU NO TAKE CRYSTAL!!" Dark Elf.
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Oh? You modified Avenger's properties to apply to more than one weapon, eh?
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Ok, I haven't tested it yet, but I'm sure I can make it work... if my theory proves wrong, well... I'll have to give the idea the axe, I guess!
If nothing else you can always take the original checks and make it jump to code with available space.

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Yeah... she'll be a kickass enough fighter without any other abilities. Again, not ideal, but I'm at peace with it.

I take it most of the free command slots when into setting up the Limit Breaks then?

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Cinna, Blank, Ruby and Avon are all taken from FFIX. Avon was originally going to be "Will," as in, The Bard. Then I realized, Lord Avon is FFIX's version of Shakespeare, so... there you go!

Haha! That is very clever, you kept the reference to Shakespeare intact and you also added more of the FFIX flair that the guests have.

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Avon: Invincibility! That is too cool!

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Probably my favorite, though maybe a bit cheap (even when it terminates like it's supposed to)

Would dividing it to make it last as long as his Level /2 or even /4 make it a bit more fair?


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Hmm, targeting in some of the new formations seem a bit askewed. I know your pain in that regard... in the end I had to use existing formations and just replace enemies already in them.

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Not sure I know what you're saying here?

For the new formations that you set up in the Training Room, the targeting is rather strange. pressing left will take you down to the next foe and pressing up will take you left, etc, etc. It seems to deal something with arrangements which we're not 100% sure on how that works yet.

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Mime works perfectly. For a laugh, see what happens if you use "Copy" on Furio after he throws an ice kunai. You'll see why the command needs to be tweaked so it won't work on allies.
In general, though, Mog is my proudest creation. Mime and his limit break work exactly as I envisioned them!

Hmm, it cast a Dummy Heal spell, likely from the Silver Staff if I had to guess.

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Hmm, what is TimeBomb, supposed to do?

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Ha-ha! Glad you asked! It's based on FFVI's Step Mine. Since FFIV doesn't count steps, it's damage based on the amount of time spent playing.

Wow! That's very impressive! But doesn't it allow abuse by running up the clock? Or is there some kind of Level portion to the formula?
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Is BigGuard just Protect or is it actually Protect and Shell?

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Both. What's that unused spell subroutine that just jumps to two other subroutines? I used that.

A good use of it! i think I used mine for the Regen spell jump... yep, looks like it was just Regen.

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I'm... satisfied with their portraits. If anything, Porom might be a little too youthfully pretty for mid-forties... I'd fix Ceo and Ursula before Palom and Porom.

Yesterday I began thinking that I missed what Palom's portrait (and sprite) is referencing. He's a Black Wizard from FFI! I can't believe I missed that on first glance, but I do have to agree, it is thematically fitting.

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Ouch... Salve still seems useless, and for some reason he doesn't actually have Item, is that intended?

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Yeah,I think I'm going to use your mod for salve. No item command was a mistake.

That would be quite the honor. Your mod has the potential to become quite well-spread and well known as being the only FFIV Mod that completely changes... everything. My scaled back Combat Boost patch that I am working on is just that. A Combat Boost, new equipment, new commands, a more challenging experience, but still follows the same story of FFIV.

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Cactuar, eh? You even put new monster sprites in battle? Great work!

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I don't plan a whole lot of that, but I had to have Cactuars, because I had to have a thousand needle blue magic. Interesting story about that... there's also 10k needles. It's not in the demo but you can hack it in. The thousand needles formula is spell power x 500... except fr some reason it doesn't work for spell power 1 or 2 (500 or 1000 damage), which is why it's 2k Needles and not 1k needles. Yet again, not ideal, but I'm happy enough that I have no plan to fix it.

That is strange. Is the coding for the routine somewhat askewed? I find it odd that it wouldn't work for 500 and 1000 damage..

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Oh, a bit more on Blue Magic... the eventual plan will be that the spells only cost 1-5 MP, but Kella will have very low max MP. Is there any good reason for this? Not especially. I thought it might be a nice way to set the really strong spells apart from the weaker ones...

It makes her even more unique and sets her further apart from her Blue Mage inspiration. I think that's a good idea.

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Whoa! That is quite a "sidequest" for an interesting "reward".
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You mean the Rydia thing? It's not really a sidequest per se. It's a forced choice the player has to make with real implications. Sorta like in FFX-2. Yes, there are lots of nods to other FF games in this hack.

Oh no, I was referring to the "port side" side quest. It is 100% fitting for a son of Edge. Though what you are doing with Rydia sounds great. It gives the quest sort of a Tactics Ogre like feel to it in some respects. Where one choice there may influence another here.

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Gah, I regret reading too much, I didn't realize that "Would you like to hear more about the meaning of the game's title?" would imply so much... spoilering!

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Can't say Spoilingway didn't warn you! Did you give in to reading the rest?
Again, thanks for all the feedback and help!

Yeah, yeah I did. Mainly because the lead-in questions sound so innocent.

"Wanna hear some juicy gossip about Rydia?" Okay, that one I should have been leery of. The others though...
"Would you like to hear about the meaning of the game's title?" And...
"I bet you're VERY interested in knowing about Kella, the only brand new party member!" I didn't expect all of That from just wanting to learn a little about Kella.

All in all though, yes the room is called "Spoiler Room" so I should have just been aware of that. Overall it's not so bad. Because though I know sort of what's going to occur, I feel that the part of a plot is the journey and the reason, not just knowing the end-result.

chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 02:52:07 PM »
Heh, it's just I'm a large supporter of Leonora/Palom. The two are such an adorable couple. But with Palom being... him. I could see how Leonora would grow tired of him with time. Overall it's a good idea, I am curious though to know what will make Leonora find a common soul in "YOU NO TAKE CRYSTAL!!" Dark Elf.
I get it, you're Team Jacob. Sorry, that was eggregious but I couldn't resist.
I was thinking, without a crystal to obsess over, maybe Dark Elf chills out a bit. Think Smeagol if The One Ring was destroyed but he lived.
Also, remember he wa a bit more articulate in TAY than in the original story. It clearly will take a bit of tweaking, but that's what I'm working with.
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(Re: berserk weapons)
If nothing else you can always take the original checks and make it jump to code with available space.
The plan is... so in battle the game checks each equipped weapon, then does a BEQ if holding Avenger. My idea is, make all the berserk weapons at the beginning of the list, and BCC from the highest berserk weapon. I'm pretty sure that will work...
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I take it most of the free command slots when into setting up the Limit Breaks then?
Yeah... one side effect of my limit system is that it uses up almost every little bit of command space.
Ursula has a great limit to balance that out a bit... think of Furio, Ceo, Kella, Ursula and, say, Lando all attacking in succession.
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Avon: Invincibility! That is too cool!
Would dividing it to make it last as long as his Level /2 or even /4 make it a bit more fair?
Maybe so, but then it practically does nothing if he's level 15 or so... that's easy enough to tweak though, so we'll see how it shakes out.


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For the new formations that you set up in the Training Room, the targeting is rather strange. pressing left will take you down to the next foe and pressing up will take you left, etc, etc. It seems to deal something with arrangements which we're not 100% sure on how that works yet.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah... wonder why that is? Good to know about swapping monsters in existing formations, though.
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(Re copying Dart)
Hmm, it cast a Dummy Heal spell, likely from the Silver Staff if I had to guess.
Because it's meant to be used on monsters, it will jump to fight if $2052,x = 00, or will jump to magic casting if 2052,x = 01-A6 (or so, don't remember the exact highest spell) but dart populates 2052,x, but not with the magic subroutine. That's what causes the weird behavior. Anyway, I'll fix that eventually.
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Wow! That's very impressive! But doesn't it allow abuse by running up the clock? Or is there some kind of Level portion to the formula?
FFIV's clock runs on four bytes, believe it or not, and Time Bomb only references the middle two. After something like 30 hours, the damage will drop back to single digits.
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That would be quite the honor. Your mod has the potential to become quite well-spread and well known as being the only FFIV Mod that completely changes... everything. My scaled back Combat Boost patch that I am working on is just that. A Combat Boost, new equipment, new commands, a more challenging experience, but still follows the same story of FFIV.
I'm excited to see you think it has that potential. Of course at the rate I'm going, a finished product may still be years away... oof.
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That is strange. Is the coding for the routine somewhat askewed? I find it odd that it wouldn't work for 500 and 1000 damage..
Yeah, I can't even begin to imagine why it's happening. Even more frustrating, earlier experiments with it (since lost) were working fine.
 :wtf:
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Oh no, I was referring to the "port side" side quest. It is 100% fitting for a son of Edge. Though what you are doing with Rydia sounds great. It gives the quest sort of a Tactics Ogre like feel to it in some respects. Where one choice there may influence another here.
Ah, the ladies of Ill repute... I do love sidequests, and acquiring Mog will be a big one, too. There will also be something with "the last black chocobo," but I haven't decided what to do with that idea yet.
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Yeah, yeah I did. Mainly because the lead-in questions sound so innocent.

"Wanna hear some juicy gossip about Rydia?" Okay, that one I should have been leery of. The others though...
"Would you like to hear about the meaning of the game's title?" And...
"I bet you're VERY interested in knowing about Kella, the only brand new party member!" I didn't expect all of That from just wanting to learn a little about Kella.

All in all though, yes the room is called "Spoiler Room" so I should have just been aware of that. Overall it's not so bad. Because though I know sort of what's going to occur, I feel that the part of a plot is the journey and the reason, not just knowing the end-result.
Sorry... I guess I should have warned you more sternly. I wanted feedback from you (and damn did you deliver), but the price of that is definitely your innocense to the game's secrets. Thanks for being a good sport about it. I'll do my best to be more straightforward about the risks of reading on in the future.

So I have the day off tomorrow and I'm home alone all day

So I should be able to smooth out some of those edges and realease a Preview v0.2

Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 05:13:26 PM »
I get it, you're Team Jacob. Sorry, that was eggregious but I couldn't resist.
I was thinking, without a crystal to obsess over, maybe Dark Elf chills out a bit. Think Smeagol if The One Ring was destroyed but he lived.
Also, remember he wa a bit more articulate in TAY than in the original story. It clearly will take a bit of tweaking, but that's what I'm working with.
Well I felt it was a pretty obvious conclusion. Considering that Palom abandons his own Sage training to train Leonora and Leonora gives up becoming an Epopt to journey the world with Palom. As I said though Palom is still a bit of a sarcastic smart-aleck. I could see his nature possibly eventually driving Leonora away.

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The plan is... so in battle the game checks each equipped weapon, then does a BEQ if holding Avenger. My idea is, make all the berserk weapons at the beginning of the list, and BCC from the highest berserk weapon. I'm pretty sure that will work...

Actually... I *think* there might be a way to have it look not at what weapon is being held, but another matter all together. If you have the weapon also apply Berserk on those it hits you can have the original check (which would logically come right before the CMP's) change it to look at the Status to inflict and if it reads that the status it applies will be Berserk, than that weapon will also inflict Berserk on the user. In that way you won't be confined to an index.


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I'm excited to see you think it has that potential. Of course at the rate I'm going, a finished product may still be years away... oof.

You know the saying "good things come to those who wait." You have your ideas all set up and the battle system, seemingly solidified. Now the part comes to building events.

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Ah, the ladies of Ill repute... I do love sidequests, and acquiring Mog will be a big one, too. There will also be something with "the last black chocobo," but I haven't decided what to do with that idea yet.

I love sidequests as well. FFIV is sadly lacking in them in a meaningful sense. I've managed to include one in Combat Boost in the Daughters of Artemis, which is as basic of a sidequest as you can get. When you use Hunt on a decently high leveled enemy you can get the (1/16 chance depending on the level of the enemy) Hunter's Key which allows you access to a secret shop in the former "Troia Cafe"'s" upstairs. That place has been changed to the Daughters of Artemis. A group of cultish defenders of Troia who worship Artemis as Goddess of the Hunt. By fighting really high level enemies and using Hunt you have the chance to get an Artemis Key (1/24) which allows you into the Inner Sanctum of the Daughters of Artemis where you can purchase the best equipment in the game (some unique) for Rosa (for extraordinarily high prices) and buy another Artemis Key should you not have enough money at that moment.

...I guess the nature and concept of Dragon Speech can also be considered a side-quest though.

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Sorry... I guess I should have warned you more sternly. I wanted feedback from you (and damn did you deliver), but the price of that is definitely your innocense to the game's secrets. Thanks for being a good sport about it. I'll do my best to be more straightforward about the risks of reading on in the future.

So I have the day off tomorrow and I'm home alone all day

So I should be able to smooth out some of those edges and realease a Preview v0.2

No problem. I'm just glad my feedback is somewhat helpful. Smooth out the "Edges", a non-intentional pun, but still pretty humorous. I wouldn't mind giving it another go when its fixed up and ready to go.

Though now I have a few questions...

How are you putting new sprites, palette and all into the game? Last I checked this was a highly complicated procedure, but it looks like you have it down pat!

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 06:15:38 PM »
If he has it down pat maybe chillyfeez can help us out Grimoire.  LOL

chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 07:28:32 PM »
Palettes are not so complicated when you use SNESPal, as long as you know where the palettes are located
Spriting, on the other hand, is an extremely complicated and even moreso time consuming process. I spent the better part of a month just putting the characters' images together - which is exactly why I ended up with some I am not completely fond of.
I'll explain my process with some pictures soon.

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 12:44:02 PM »
Posted the steps of my spriting process to the Apropos of Nothing topic:
http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1905.msg20549#msg20549

Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy IV: A Threat from Within (The Preview)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 10:17:00 PM »
You have your work cut out for you my friend. This is not an enviable task by any means, however it's not as arduous or as painstaking as I thought it would be and with a bit of effort I guess anyone can really do it, but at the amount you've done it I imagine that you've grown quite skilled with it!