Author Topic: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4  (Read 236537 times)

Grimoire LD

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1080 on: June 29, 2015, 11:54:19 PM »
Question for those who have messed with the NPC editor. I notice that adding a character doesn't seem to like my selections. So far I've added two characters to a room, added speech for them, and they appeared. What I'm worried about is that if my edits will affect other NPCs in the game. So, does it matter what I select as the NPC and Sprite type? Or will this screw with others in game?

Edit- I figured it out. Just have to select a proper NPC to use.

Edit 2- Think I found a bug. When selecting the soldier in the Training Room, it keeps changing when I go to back out of it to a Porom statue. I can't seem to add it without it messing up.

Hmm, I see what's going on here and it's something Very important to note for you. The Training Room is in the Overworld and thus has access to NPC's from 1-256. The "Soldier" you're choosing is 369 which, due to being an Underworld NPC is immediately changed to represent and Overworld NPC on the Overworld Map which is Palom Statue.

Bear in mind that the Overworld has NPC's from 1-256 and the Underworld has NPC's from 257-511.

You cannot mix and match between them.

chillyfeez

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1081 on: June 30, 2015, 12:24:24 AM »
I just commented on your thread over on RHDN with some other info about NPCs, too (saw it there first).

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1082 on: June 30, 2015, 07:04:24 AM »
Thank you both! So it was as I suspected, but to an even greater scale. I will need to figure out what, if any NPCs are free to manipulate.

Grimoire LD

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1083 on: June 30, 2015, 09:41:04 AM »
There are a fair amount in the Underworld and a... decent amount in the Overworld.

NPC 40 Dark Knight Cecil (You can use NPC 1 instead, don't forget to make him Visible though)
NPC 70 Paladin Cecil (To my knowledge is unused completely)
NPC 125 Unused Captain
NPC 127 Unused Chocobo
(NOTE: Old Man 147 "Not Used" is actually the Seneschal in the Tower of Babil.)
NPC 151 Unused Soldier (He is Technically used, but is quickly made invisible starting events. He would have stood, along with his clone in front of Eblan's Hospital)
NPC 166 Unused Mist Bomb (likely part of an earlier plan when they didn't have the Visual Effect prepared yet)
NPC 256 Dark Knight Cecil (Unused and placeholder.)

There may be a couple more in the Overworld, but those are the ones that should be safe.

Underworld

NPC 257 Dark Knight Cecil (Has no purpose in the Underworld)
NPC 303 Edge (A copy of Edge, you could replace with his initial entry at 276)
NPC 365 Grimoire Event 1
NPC 366 Grimoire Event 2 (NOTE: Since you are trying to recreate the game back to its original state. These events are in the original game, but so hidden away that I've only seen it mentioned in a couple of places. You can acquire the two Grimoires from the bookshelves in the Feymarch Weapon/Armor Shops after going to the Moon, I believe is the trigger)

359-376 (Training House NPCs 1?)
378-379 (Training House NPCs 2?)

380-387 (Programmer Room NPC leftovers?)
402 Obtaining Grimoire 91 (Unused completely)

411  Rosa (Likely used in the Lunar Whale, but they copy all of the NPC's there for some reason when they all had applicable Sprites before, making these a duplicate)
412  Adult Rydia
413  Edge
414  Kain

488 Tellah (Is never seen in the Underworld, making this unused)

492-494 (Training House NPC's)

NPC 495-510 are completely unused.

And that should do it! That should give you a little more room. A lot of room in the Underworld though. At least a new town or several new dungeons worth of NPC's available.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1084 on: June 30, 2015, 11:45:26 PM »
That is extremely helpful, Grimoire LD! However it would seem that some NPCs in the Overworld won't become visible no matter what I try to do. I could be doing something wrong I'm not sure. It might be wise for me to move the map I'm using for the Training Room to the Underworld, but I don't think Namingway works there. (correct me if I'm wrong).

chillyfeez

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1085 on: June 30, 2015, 11:56:43 PM »
It could be that you're turning NPCs that used to be invisible by default into NPCs that are visible by default. When a new game is started, the game runs through all NPCs' default visibility settings and sets them appropriately. Once that's done, it requires an "activate NPC" or a "deactivate NPC" event command to change the default visibility within a particular save. This took me a very long time to figure out for myself.
If it helps, try thinking about it like this: every NPC has a visibility setting in a big group, sort of like event flags. Once a game is started, those flags are set however they're set until event command changes them. Unlike event flags, though, FF4kster gives you the ability to change how these visibilities are set at the start of a new game. But if your game's already started, your only option within that game is to "turn them on" with event code.
I don't know if that second explanation made it any better...
Am I making sense? Sorry, I'm kinda tired...

Pinkpuff

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1086 on: July 01, 2015, 05:34:21 AM »
When I was making Unprecedented Crisis, I set aside a special "debug event" that I would use in situations like this to restore the game state to what it should be (set flags, NPC visibilities, etc) when I made those kinds of changes. Just make an event that does that, find a nearby trigger to trigger it, then load up your save file, trigger the event, save, and you can remove the trigger again.
Let's dance!

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1087 on: July 01, 2015, 11:24:32 PM »
Even crazier while trying to re-add the NPCs into the Training Room, over HALF of the NPCs in Baron completely got ERASED! I don't know if its a bug or something I did.

Grimoire LD

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1088 on: July 01, 2015, 11:30:57 PM »
Even crazier while trying to re-add the NPCs into the Training Room, over HALF of the NPCs in Baron completely got ERASED! I don't know if its a bug or something I did.

There is something... special about the Training Rooms in SNES FFII. They are in an underground sequence, but appear only in Overworld maps, this speaks to added programming. However the original six NPC's of the Training Room are Overworld NPC's but the Overworld should have a couple of spare NPC's to use. Now when you say "Erased" do you mean that even their data from Baron Town's NPC list is gone?

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1089 on: July 01, 2015, 11:39:51 PM »
Yep. 7 out of 11 NPCS in Baron Town just vanished right after I saved. It really is beginning to look like a better idea to recreate the training room someplace else, like lets say the original first floor Training Room. The thing is, THOSE NPCs are currently inhabiting (in the wrong locations) the Developer's Office until I put all of the NPCs where they need to go.

Grimoire LD

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1090 on: July 02, 2015, 12:07:44 AM »
That is odd, I know the main modders (PinkPuff, Chillyfeez, Bahamut-ZERO,  myself) all altered NPC's for our mods and I don't recall us having these problems past the first or second iteration of the NPC editor, but this was an older problem, I had felt that PinkPuff squashed that bug some time ago. Hmm...

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1091 on: July 02, 2015, 06:25:44 AM »
Well I downloaded what I thought was the WIP version on timecave.net, but I could be wrong. I still have the RHDN version as well so tonight after work I will try editing using that version in hopes that the same error won't happen.

chillyfeez

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1092 on: July 02, 2015, 07:41:50 AM »
I think (?) the most complete and bug-free version is the most recent one on timecave, but regardless that probably shouldn't be happening with the most recent from either site...

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1093 on: July 02, 2015, 06:33:33 PM »
So I tried again to ensure the maps weren't causing the issue, and it would seem that altering them has an altogether strange effect. Try talking to the Namingway and renaming your character bunks up the cursor so it won't correctly display on the right letter. I have multiple test ROMs and the one before restoring the town maps back, but everything else works fine. With me altering Baron, Baron's Devil Road, and their triggers so the teleports work right, and talking to a Namingway is messed up.

Edit- It would seem these bugs are coming from the version I downloaded from timecave. The RHDN version is not giving me these bugs - SO FAR. It means the hard work Bahamut Zero did to initially restore the JP town maps has to be redone! ArgHH!!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 07:05:02 PM by Rodimus Primal »

Grimoire LD

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Re: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4
« Reply #1094 on: July 03, 2015, 01:44:21 AM »
That's an FF4kster problem? That's... a little bit of a relief. I had thought it was actually caused by my Morph hack.